Unpopular Opinion

"Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch" (bman76) 08/18/2016 at 14:35 • Filed to: None

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This is absolutely a step in the right direction.

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There is a population density tipping point at which cars are more of a hassle than a benefit. Cars ruin cities, cities (with robust public transportation) are better without cars.

Eberle-Hills-Cop > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 14:37

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Probably accurate. But you couldn’t pay me to go to a place like NYC so knock yourselves out.

mazda616 > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 14:37

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I can see the point of that. At a certain point, cars in big cities just sit in traffic 24/7.

Beyond glad that I live in a small town.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 14:37

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DeBlasshole.

For Sweden > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 14:37

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What about all the delivery trucks

EL_ULY > For Sweden 08/18/2016 at 14:39

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Work trucks and vans in general. Not to mention people that live in the area that don’t want to take their expensive/heavy tools inside the subway

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 14:42

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I thought you were referencing the shuttering of Gawker.com with your first line and was going to agree with you.

I’m not really that opposed with city centers being automobile-free either, but I think you have to make allowances for businesses who rely on deliveries, etc.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > For Sweden 08/18/2016 at 14:42

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Still allowed. they just have to follow the 5mph speed limit.

For Sweden > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 14:42

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More idling than the mayor’s motorcade!

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > For Sweden 08/18/2016 at 14:43

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and you typically have delivery hours very early in the morning to avoid peak pedestrian traffic.

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 14:45

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You couldn’t pay me any amount of money to drive in manhattan, I think I got a brain aneurysm from how angry I got “driving” there.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > mazda616 08/18/2016 at 14:46

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and you’re forced to provide infrastructure (parking lots/garages) for an object which a very small percentage of the population actually use.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > For Sweden 08/18/2016 at 14:48

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Make them zero emissions zones too.

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > For Sweden 08/18/2016 at 14:50

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Not sure what they’re using or planning to use in Manhattan, but most of these systems work with retractable bollards that can be activated with a pass (or even using a number plate scanner), so you can easily make exceptions for certain (classes of) vehicles.

Delivery trucks often get time-limited exceptions (e.g. only between 6 and 10 am). Tenants can get a permanent free pass if they’ve got off-street parking, or can request permission beforehand in case they’ll need to move large things. Emergency vehicles can automatically pass.

The alternative is installing camera systems and fine everyone that enters a zone where they don’t belong. That’s a popular solution over here for city centers, as it allows for easy access for homeowners, while being a source of income/stupid tax at the same time.

EDIT: Apparently they’re not technically restricting the zone, just imposing a 5 mph speed limit? Seems kinda meh, better just do it right from the beginning.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/18/2016 at 14:50

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Early morning delivery hours, restricted entry passes, zero emission vehicles.

Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 14:53

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It’s a good move, but there are very few other areas in Manhattan where I could see this being done. Probably just the occasional retail dominated street below 14th, and Times Square.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > EL_ULY 08/18/2016 at 14:55

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Can still exist but in a restricted format.

Sam > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 14:55

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I agree, though Manhattan is really the only place it makes much sense right now. A few friend and I went to NYC and honestly only needed vehicular transport to get from the Newark Airport to the rail station and back at the end of the week. The rest of the time, we got everywhere we needed to go via the subway and walking. Super easy to do.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > Sam 08/18/2016 at 15:00

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Same here, I flew into LaGuardia. The U.S. outside of New York is very poorly planned. Density is just awful.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 15:02

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Spend any time in the densest cities and anyone would agree.

Every time I’m in Hong Kong I marvel at the urban infrastructure eye candy, but realise that I’m grateful to live/work in the US where it’s much easier to indulge in my car hobby.

Private car ownership in Hong Kong is somewhere below 10% and this is a rabidly consumption-driven city.

EL_ULY > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 15:03

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Hard working people that do real work for a living sure love restrictions.....

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Sam 08/18/2016 at 15:04

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There’s an NJT stop at the Newark airport, so you don’t even need it for that. However, Manhattan is not New York. Far out in Queens, Brooklyn, and Bronx, a car’s useful and in Staten Island it’s almost a necessity.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 08/18/2016 at 15:10

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I think the thing people forget is that there are trade-offs to make life better overall. Cars must exist in suburban and rural areas, there’s no way around that. Suburbia exists exclusively because of them.

I don’t think we should let them rule cities however. I’ve visited city centers devoid of cars, and they are immensely nicer than any U.S. city.

and 100 more > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 15:13

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Reclaim space from roads for other purposes

Remove traffic infrastructure altogether, reclaim upkeep costs

Healthier air and cleaner streets (no exhaust, brake dust, etc)

Yeah, sounds good.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > EL_ULY 08/18/2016 at 15:13

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Again, I’m saying we ban non-commercial traffic, set delivery hours, and restrict entry. If a maintenance truck needs to do work, it can do work. But the city center is a pedestrian first zone.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 15:14

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Which country? The most car-free place I’ve visited is central Munich. I believe several blocks around Marienplatz are ped-only in the daytime. It’s a nice environment.

The only places in the US that could ever hope to be car-free would be certain blocks in San Francisco, Boston and Manhattan.

Cities in the old world developed around nodes (which are usually today’s train stations), which naturally gives rise to the idea of car-lessness. Seems to be much more difficult to do in ‘Murica.

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > EL_ULY 08/18/2016 at 15:16

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See my reply to For Sweden. A controlled access zone would be better than limiting the speed, as you can allow exceptions for those that genuinely need it.

EL_ULY > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 15:18

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It’s not just commercial vehicles doe. It’s having to travel (sometimes in a hurry Because humans) while either having large items or expensive things with the general public in a public transport item or walking.

7 PM, I have to go fix my brother’s house all night (because one works all day). Here’s my brand new cordless saw, 2 sheets of sheet rock, 2 bags of 10 inch A/C flex duct, and my laptop. Time to walk/get on the subway with everything. Good thing humans don’t suck :]

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > and 100 more 08/18/2016 at 15:19

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Ambient noise reduction too.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 08/18/2016 at 15:22

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That happens when you’re trains suck.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > EL_ULY 08/18/2016 at 15:25

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The good of the many outweighs the good of the one. Living in a city core has benefits and drawbacks. Unfortunately, we’re currently restricting the biggest benefit for a marginal bonus to a small piece of the population.

You live in Houston, right? This would not work in Houston, at all, ever.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 08/18/2016 at 15:27

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Prague, Munich, Zurich, Brno, Usti, these places all have cars but not in their core.

TheJWT > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 15:30

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Oh yeah, aside from the FDR and the Battery tunnel there’s literally no need for cars in downtown Manhattan. I’m all for it

and 100 more > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 15:30

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I had considered that after I posted; that would be huge toward mental health, I’d imagine.

jkm7680 > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 15:30

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GOD DAMN HIPPIES

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > and 100 more 08/18/2016 at 15:33

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And an overall sense of community in general. You could have a normal conversation.

EL_ULY > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 15:38

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My other home is in Mexico DF. We’ve never EVER owned a vehicle. There is no “need” in having one.....but holy hot fuck would it help out soooo much trying to get things done efficiently. University students get pissed and protest by blocking off the subway. Taxi driver’s get pissed, stop services. Woke up late? Bought a refrigerator and shipping will take forever across town and need it asap! Just a couple examples of a bazillion things that seem to be more consistent. We’ve manage forever without a vehicle there, but damn it all if the people could, they would rather drive trust me. The town is a little smaller than Houston but 20 million people. The infrastructure is already set up and it is pretty awesome when it comes to public transport. Some say the best. People can manage, but those with vehicles just get more thing done.

Speaking of Houston, well..... LOL

I have to go to his place this weekend to pick up his old but still badass BBQ grill. Taking that big thing via public transport 40+ miles would be super funny :]

EL_ULY > Out, but with a W - has found the answer 08/18/2016 at 15:39

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The line to that office will be hella long lol :]

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > EL_ULY 08/18/2016 at 15:45

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Oh yeah, Houston was literally THE example of planning and zoning failure (literally no zoning) in my planning and urbanism classes. It’s probably the worst failure in major city planning that has ever existed.

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > EL_ULY 08/18/2016 at 15:52

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Correctly implemented, it works, in European(-style) cities at least. This is a solution for crowded and congested city cores only, so a couple of streets/blocks maximum. Keep or create a number of high-capacity thoroughfares and parking buildings, so you can get just about where you need to be, and the situation isn’t all that different for 99.9% of use cases, while still greatly improving life in the restricted zones.

It’s not like you can currently park in front of your Manhattan destination either way.

EL_ULY > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 16:05

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not that bad

EL_ULY > Out, but with a W - has found the answer 08/18/2016 at 16:14

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oh indeed sir. It can be done in NYC. Not where I live for sure, but NYC :]

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 16:28

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They didn’t ask the mom & pop shops on Route 66 when they built the interstates that put many of them out of business... Sad for many of them, but I suppose this is what governments do - choose the “greater good” over the welfare of any one set of individuals. In theory, that’s great. In practice, probably a little less great.

I guess it could be argued that that more interstates and freeways led to more more urban sprawl which led to more commuting cars trying to get into city centers which led to more cities banning cars from city centers...

So, governments are good at solving problems which create other problems which governments feel the need to solve? =)

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > EL_ULY 08/18/2016 at 16:32

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Haha, that’s not a city anymore, we call that a small country. ;)

Still, I’d wager it could even be beneficial in downtown Houston (and only downtown). The grid pattern is a double-edged sword: it makes it extremely easy to designate main roads and restricted zones, but most of the streets are so wide that you’d have to (partly) turn them into parks or green corridors to prevent them being a concrete wasteland.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 18:03

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so boooring tho. i go to large cites to look at the cars there.

also loud cars sound best in large cities when the sound waves bounce off the buildings

NJAnon > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/18/2016 at 20:26

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Its not unpopular. Its just something to remember that it isn’t some global solution that can work everywhere. If a few places can do it and thrive, fine.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 08/18/2016 at 23:32

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People gotta live there though.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/19/2016 at 02:12

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if i lived there id much rather hear that everyday

Nauraushaun > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 08/20/2016 at 19:59

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There is a population density tipping point at which cars are more of a hassle than a benefit.

This is true and undeniable. A lot of people get upset when you say you should ban cars, but you can’t deny that too many cars in a city completely negates their usefulness, and if you’re acknowledging that how can you deny that banning cars in some cities is a good thing?

Driving in Melbourne is hell.